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hi everyone welcome to podcast ufo this

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is martin willis your host

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today's episode is number 23 with peter

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robbins a couple of quick announcements

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you can like us on our new facebook page

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or you can follow us on twitter and both

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of those icons are on our website which

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is podcastufo.com

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if you'd like to contact me it's info at

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podcastufo.com

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thank you for listening and i hope you

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i'm with peter robbins and we're at the

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experiencers speak conference in gorham

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maine september 8th how you doing peter

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good good to be with you yes thank you i

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just heard you up there on the podium

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and you did an excellent job thank you

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it was wonderful you've been doing this

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a while i have um i i've been making

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part of my living as a public speaker

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for you know 25 odd years i guess

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and can you explain how well first of

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all there's a number of things i want to

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touch on and one of them is rendelsham

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forrest

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can you explain how you got interested

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in the phenomenon to begin with well i'd

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be glad to um

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i got interested

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literally in the course of an afternoon

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with the return of what may well be my

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only repressed memory of childhood which

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was

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a very dramatically clear

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multiple ufo sighting

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with one of my sisters

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from the property of our home growing up

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on long island

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and i say

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dramatic in that it was five silvery

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white

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disc shaped objects in a very precise v

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type formation

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they were not shiny they more were like

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brushed metal and they were close enough

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to make out regular detailing around

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each edge that we could only interpret

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the way you'd see windows on an airliner

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at a distance how big they were i can't

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say if they were

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10 000 feet up they were x size if they

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were 5 000 feet up they were why

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broad daylight it was it was in the

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early 60s not a cloud in the sky um i

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was a very i was 14 my sister was 12.

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where was this rockville center long

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island uh bedroom community of manhattan

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about 30 miles east of the city

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and i um had a i would have to say a

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very happy childhood um until then well

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it was very troubling

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because

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what informed um

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my emotions at the time was

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i had

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without saying anything um been brought

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up to understand that the adult implied

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message about this phenomena

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was true namely that ufos are real in

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the movies and fairly bad ones too

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and

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i had so many other interests i wasn't

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interested in the subject at all as a

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kid i was in wasn't interested in

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science fiction really

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i was interested in nature and rocks and

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bugs and building things and collecting

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stamps and we'll leave it to beaver

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stuff

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we're playing on the front lawn of the

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house and looked up in time to see these

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things come in at a very high rate of

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speed and then just stop

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i think what was most troubling to me

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was i understood intuitively the

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tremendous ridicule factor involved

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and as a junior high school student in

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the throes of adolescence all i really

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wanted

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as i said was um well to get some cooler

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clothes

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to be you know accepted by kids that i

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wanted to be accepted by and to get my

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hands on a girl and you know how girls

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are you tell one of them one thing and

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they all know

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and i i'm only half joking with you i

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really felt that if i talked about this

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to my friends

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they'd see me as just a a weird ball kid

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and i i so i found a way to put it out

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of my mind now were there any other

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witnesses beside your sister if there

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were i don't know one of the things that

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i did when i got involved in the

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research

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was i went to the newspaper morgue for

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newsday which was the big long island

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paper that we grew up with

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and based on the date that i thought it

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had occurred

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i went six months in each direction and

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i looked at all the microfiche it was

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the old analog stuff i couldn't find

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anything but the more i do this work the

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more i realize

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because again of the ridicule factor

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why should i call the paper why should i

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call the cops

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i saw a flying saucer give me a break

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yeah so

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a huge number of reports especially back

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then went unreported and if there were

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other people that saw i don't know about

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that i know it was a very quiet late

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morning in our suburban area

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and nobody was around

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and um that memory got a lid on it and

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15 years later almost 14 and a half

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years later that memory came roaring

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back

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and i have to tell you it was very

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upsetting for me do you mean you

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suppressed to the memory i mean that's

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what i must have done i didn't

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understand what i was doing but i knew

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that i didn't want to see what i thought

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this might be so badly that that

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afternoon i

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for the first time in the last time in

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my life i went to our village library

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and i took out books on this subject and

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in the 60s there were quite a lot of ufo

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books in libraries

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interestingly in the 70s a lot of

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libraries dumped

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their ufo books or most of them in uf in

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book sales

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because libraries felt

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the sting of ridicule you've got books

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on flying sausage how serious is your

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library i think the government was

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behind that i don't know but i know that

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that was a joke yeah well okay right uh

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who knows

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the fact is though that um all i wanted

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to know was that these things were

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explainable in conventional terms

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i pulled them off this the shelf because

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they both had flying sausages and their

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title took them home went up to my room

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closed the door

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they were both awful in terms of saying

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they're from venus no they're from mars

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brought them back to the library the

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next day and forgot about them can i

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interrupt you just yes you can so you're

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at that point even as young as you were

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you were thinking more of an academic

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scientific nature of looking into this i

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just wanted to know that they were

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something i could wrap my head around

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the idea of

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being machines from parts unknown by

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other intelligences

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was beyond unsettling to me it was very

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upsetting to me i was living in my own

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cheerful little world and

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this was not part of it

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and again

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i was 14 i was being informed primarily

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by my hormones and wanting to be a kid

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like all of us do that fit in

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yeah and again um

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i i got i'm only half joking i really

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felt that i'd be seen as such an

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eccentric that i'd never have a

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girlfriend if people associated me with

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this subject sure you can imagine how we

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get around the school yes

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very fast and very interestingly when

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the memory returned it did it in the

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course of an afternoon i can tell you

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why i think it returned that afternoon

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it's sort of a moot point

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but i ended up calling my sister on the

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phone because i knew

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she'd confirm it for me or not

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and i was really upset

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that i could have put this out of my

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mind i had never heard of represent

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memory syndrome i don't know if the

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terminology was used in the mental

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health professional in the mid 70s but

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if not the phenomena was certainly known

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but i couldn't believe that how could i

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forget this

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and i had completely and then it came

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roaring back

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and by the time i called my sister i had

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thought it out enough

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to say when i finally got her on the

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phone i remembered something that

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happened to us when we were kids and i

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need to know if you remember

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but i'm concerned that if i tell you

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what i remember you'll say yes or no

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so what i'm gonna try to do here is set

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the scene

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and i began to tell her where we were

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standing on the front lawn

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about how far apart what the weather was

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like about how old we were and she

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stopped me in the middle of a sentence

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since it stopped i know what you're

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talking about

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and then essentially described to me

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what i remembered

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and that was

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a strange moment of both elation and

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anxiety of

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oh my god they're real and oh my god

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they're real

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and then she said but there's more and

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you're not going to like it and it led

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to her describing to me

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her memories

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of what we would now call an

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archetypical abduction experience

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that particular day

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yeah right then coming out of that

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conversation

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and my first question to her is how come

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we never talked about this

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and she had never forgotten it not one

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day she had never forgotten

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she said very simple

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you remember that afternoon i came up to

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you and i said you want to talk about

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this and you said

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no

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you're my older brother i love you i

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respect you one week led to the next

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month led to the next year

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and here we are but i never forgot it

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and there's more

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and you're not gonna like it

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and then she told me again

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what now i would say a story a variation

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that i've heard a thousand times uh part

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of an archetypical abduction experience

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series of memories almost word for word

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then i just became extremely upset

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and i had a moment and i'll categorize

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it as a moment where i thought to myself

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oh my god my sister's gone crazy

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and then i caught myself and i said ah

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but three seconds before that it was

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perfectly okay to have five

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flying saucers with little windows on

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them hanging over the parker's house

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across the street in a precise military

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formation

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and as we talk more my life simply

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changed and the career that i had worked

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so hard for the dream i had had as a

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young child because i knew what i wanted

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to be as a five-year-old i was a very

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gifted visual artist and

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my parents sacrificed to give me oil

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00:10:06,310 --> 00:10:05,200
painting lessons when i was eight years

282
00:10:08,389 --> 00:10:06,320
old i

283
00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:08,399
graduated from i think the greatest art

284
00:10:11,750 --> 00:10:10,320
school in america i went on faculty

285
00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:11,760
there as a painting instructor three

286
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:14,240
years later really wow i was showing my

287
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:16,160
work in new york by the time i was in my

288
00:10:22,069 --> 00:10:19,360
late 20s i was living my dream and i

289
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:22,079
knew it and i resented

290
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:24,880
the fact that something had

291
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:27,200
in a moment superimposed itself on my

292
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:28,320
life

293
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:31,360
that was so much more for me

294
00:10:34,069 --> 00:10:32,720
significant

295
00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:34,079
important

296
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:36,079
i was i became obsessed with the subject

297
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:38,000
overnight that's there's no other way to

298
00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:40,000
say it and it affected my art

299
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:41,279
dramatically

300
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,800
so much so that i had um

301
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:46,480
about three months before i had a visit

302
00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:49,760
from an up-and-coming um art dealer

303
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:52,560
who within a few years became one of the

304
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:55,040
most powerful wealthy successful

305
00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:57,760
influential art dealers in new york city

306
00:11:01,670 --> 00:10:59,680
and i'll go on the record with it um

307
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:01,680
some of your listeners ultimately may

308
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,040
know who this is

309
00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:06,160
her name was and still is mary boone

310
00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:08,800
mary was a smart woman

311
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,600
sharp as attack with a great eye for art

312
00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:13,920
and i knew even then that i really

313
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,600
wanted to be represented by this young

314
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:17,760
woman she was showing out of her home

315
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,399
and she out of her home well originally

316
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:22,240
yeah

317
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:24,560
and she um

318
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,720
liked my work well enough what she had

319
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,240
seen three months earlier that we made

320
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,720
an appointment for her to come back

321
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:32,560
and now she comes back about three

322
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,040
months after this

323
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,200
revelation has hit me

324
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:39,600
and all i know is i'm almost like if i

325
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:41,279
was a writer would be the equivalent of

326
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,320
automatic writing i'm doing page after

327
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:46,320
page after page of

328
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,600
elliptical shapes and then drawings of

329
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:52,000
disc shaped objects and then

330
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:54,839
almost fake schematic drawings of flying

331
00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:58,480
saucers um and then back to ellipses

332
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:00,079
it must have looked like i went out of

333
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:02,240
my mind you know i think about richard

334
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:04,320
dreyfuss in the mountains potatoes yes i

335
00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:07,440
was obsessed yeah and all i knew was oh

336
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,040
she came in oh hi mary here's my new

337
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:11,440
work and as she started to look at it it

338
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:12,800
hit me

339
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:15,519
i mean she was really

340
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,519
it obviously made her very anxious and

341
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:19,680
appropriately so

342
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,079
and i realized god i can't even talk

343
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:24,320
about this and i put this poor woman on

344
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,839
a spot i should have just canceled this

345
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,800
appointment

346
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:28,959
i'm so locked into my own crazy little

347
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,040
world right now on this

348
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:33,279
and it's it's a way of trying to

349
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,240
you know

350
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,079
just manifest what happened to my sister

351
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:38,480
what's this thing all about

352
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,440
i was literally in the frozen obsession

353
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,519
and she made it clear to me as nice as

354
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:46,160
she could and she's a very nice woman

355
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,279
that

356
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:49,120
she didn't know what was going on with

357
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:52,480
my work something had happened that

358
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,680
had taken it off of the course that she

359
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:57,519
was interested in seeing and she wished

360
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:58,880
me well

361
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,279
and wow you know and that was that now

362
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,680
did you do abstract work before that i

363
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:05,360
did um i was actually doing an

364
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:07,200
interesting i think an interesting

365
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:10,240
combination of very stark modern kind of

366
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:11,680
conceptual

367
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,000
um sculptures

368
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:16,560
um and drawings and wash drawings and

369
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:18,800
sketches that were informed by political

370
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,480
thinking and um

371
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,399
ancient sites

372
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,560
and i wasn't interested in ufos but i

373
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,320
remember i had done a lithograph some

374
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,800
time before that a very simple one of

375
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:32,800
the great pyramid with just sort of a

376
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:34,880
handwritten caption under it

377
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,279
uh was the great pyramid a radio

378
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,240
receiver and then a beautiful schematic

379
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:42,880
drawing of um

380
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:46,880
stonehenge in in graphite and above it

381
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:49,440
um the chinese at the time manufactured

382
00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:52,720
these beautiful silk portraits of marx

383
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:55,040
angles mao all the great communist

384
00:13:58,629 --> 00:13:56,800
leaders and you could buy them at the

385
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,639
chinese stores in new york for a couple

386
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,480
of bucks and they had a beautiful one of

387
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,079
stalin one of the worst people in the

388
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:03,920
history of the world absolutely and it

389
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,160
was black and white and gray silk and i

390
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:08,639
had glued it on this beautiful rectangle

391
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,000
above

392
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:12,639
the picture that i had drawn in graphite

393
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:16,639
of stonehenge and then with like a red

394
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:19,279
grease crayon i had just drawn a slash

395
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:21,920
through the picture stalin wow it had a

396
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,399
great dynamic to it so it's conceptual

397
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:26,399
work as well yeah and i was doing wash

398
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:29,519
drawings of fragments of mayan pottery

399
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:31,360
and

400
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:34,399
chinese pen drawings or fragments of

401
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,399
tibetan watercolors i love the esoteric

402
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:40,560
i was looking for dynamic compositions

403
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:42,399
within a rectangle

404
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:43,600
i was trying to show i was a

405
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:46,079
sophisticated grown-up new york artist

406
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:48,160
you know i mean i'm just playing the

407
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,160
game and taking myself very seriously

408
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:52,320
and all of a sudden my trolley jumped

409
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,519
the tracks

410
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:55,839
and this afternoon happened and i

411
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:59,040
thought my god i'm lost um

412
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,079
this

413
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:02,639
my sense was and and i

414
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:05,279
if mary is listening or ever hears this

415
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,639
um

416
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:08,320
i'll email her

417
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:10,320
well all i can say is she went on to

418
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,360
become

419
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,440
one of the most dynamic

420
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:15,440
important influential and successful art

421
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:18,079
dealers in modern times in new york

422
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,959
and even though i had no part in it i

423
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:22,959
was very proud of her at a distance and

424
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:24,880
i wished i could have been part of it

425
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:26,160
but

426
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,320
and i always understood her reaction i

427
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:30,079
thought she handled

428
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,519
her anxiety for me as well as the

429
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:35,360
awkwardness of the moment

430
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:37,040
with a great deal of class and

431
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:39,519
consideration but at that point

432
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,880
i realized

433
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,639
i needed this to hold on to and i

434
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,880
continued to paint and draw and show my

435
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,120
work to a degree for another six years i

436
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,199
continued to teach also

437
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:51,680
but the heart had gone out of it for me

438
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:54,399
and i was more and more studying ufos

439
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,000
and learning about them and reading

440
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:58,079
about them and ultimately

441
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,920
reaching out making contact with a few

442
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:01,519
people in the field because for the

443
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:03,040
first year i didn't want to meet anybody

444
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,480
that was doing this work they had to be

445
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,800
crazy well can i just stop you for a

446
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:08,079
second

447
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,480
we're talking back in a time

448
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:12,079
you know everyone is so used to the

449
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:13,120
internet

450
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:15,279
and we're talking back in a time where

451
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:16,639
it was books

452
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,480
books and conferences yep and that's it

453
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:20,399
that's right so when did you first go to

454
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:23,600
your uh the initial conference

455
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:26,320
well um

456
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:28,800
my awareness

457
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,480
happened fully formed in february of um

458
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,079
75

459
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,240
in part i think because my mind was

460
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:39,040
ready to deal with it in part because i

461
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,880
had not slept very well for the previous

462
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:43,199
few days have been chinese new year's

463
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:45,680
and it's just fireworks for 72 hours

464
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:46,800
also

465
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,639
not long before that my father's mother

466
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,959
who lived on lexington avenue and 27th

467
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:52,880
street

468
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:54,639
gave me something very special as a

469
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:57,120
young artist in my 20s

470
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:58,880
she gave me

471
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:01,279
several dozen drawings that she had

472
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,480
saved

473
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:04,319
of mine from childhood now that's

474
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:06,079
something all parents do now but they

475
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:07,679
didn't back then

476
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,839
and some of the drawings were done right

477
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,520
in that time period nothing to do with

478
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,799
ufos

479
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,640
but drawings that i had done at about

480
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:16,959
that time and i had gone through them

481
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:18,959
very recently and i think the

482
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,480
combination of

483
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:22,160
not sleeping well i had done a human

484
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:24,000
potential workshop too that it opened me

485
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,520
up a little bit

486
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:27,679
the drawings and just the right time it

487
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:28,799
came up

488
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:34,150
two years i was a faculty member at the

489
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,760
school of visual arts the next year i

490
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,679
met bud hopkins who went on to become

491
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:40,400
such a dear friend and close colleague

492
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,440
in 1977 i had an idea

493
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,919
to do a presentation on ufos i was now

494
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:47,360
very knowledgeable i had been in it for

495
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:48,799
a year and a half

496
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:50,799
and the school of visual arts like many

497
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:53,440
schools was always open maybe more than

498
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:55,200
most schools to quote-unquote

499
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,880
interesting speakers

500
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,799
and i thought gee i've got my new friend

501
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,559
bud who's also a painter who's into this

502
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:02,799
stuff bud was a painter oh i was gonna

503
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,080
is that through his whole life you'll

504
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,240
find out about it in my talk he was a an

505
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:08,160
abstract expressionist to start with and

506
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:10,000
then oh i think i knew that i knew that

507
00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:11,679
yeah yeah very cool and i was gonna ask

508
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,360
you never stopped i was going to ask you

509
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:15,600
when you how you got to meet bud

510
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,880
initially

511
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:18,559
well

512
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,919
about a year after i got involved

513
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,000
i was surprised to see that the village

514
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,630
a weekly newspaper in new york kind of

515
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,320
you know liberal paper

516
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:32,559
um that they had a front page article as

517
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,440
i recall on a ufo case i thought whoa

518
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,120
bought the paper

519
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:40,080
well it was not only an investigation of

520
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:41,520
a case

521
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,400
it was about the best written

522
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:46,240
most down-to-earth

523
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,080
start to finish investigation of any

524
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,760
case i had ever come on

525
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:51,600
and it involved a case that i think the

526
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,919
following year the big organization

527
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:56,400
mufon declared as the case of the year

528
00:19:03,350 --> 00:18:59,679
involving a witnessed landing a multiply

529
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,360
witnessed event in new jersey

530
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:05,440
and the guy who had happened to owned a

531
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:06,320
store

532
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:09,360
on west 16th street where bud lived

533
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,160
and they were acquaintances and

534
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:14,000
bud wrote this article

535
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:14,960
and

536
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,200
i was amazed at what a great article it

537
00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:19,840
was and i wanted to meet this guy

538
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:21,360
and

539
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:23,679
i think i had either been to a show of

540
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,240
his or something i mean you know you're

541
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:28,320
a serious young new york artist you try

542
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,120
to learn who everybody is on the scene

543
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,760
and bud with 2ds hopkins there was only

544
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:35,280
one in the new york city phone book and

545
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,520
i took a chance and i basically cold

546
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,600
called him and said hi i'm a painter i'm

547
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,000
interested in ufos my sister and i had a

548
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:44,160
sighting when we were kids my sister had

549
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,039
an experience at least one and we talked

550
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,039
on the phone and a few days he invited

551
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:51,600
me over for coffee a few days hence

552
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:53,200
and i went over and we spent the

553
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,799
afternoon together

554
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:55,919
and it was

555
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:58,160
i mean i think back

556
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,160
we sat at his kitchen table

557
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:02,880
and i could have never imagined that

558
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,200
35 years later we'd probably be having

559
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:07,600
our 800th conversation at that kitchen

560
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,039
table

561
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:11,600
and um so that's how i met him and that

562
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:12,559
was

563
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:14,080
he had just been into it less than a

564
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:15,840
year it was five years before he

565
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:18,400
published his first book missing time

566
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,559
and after that book came out well he

567
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,280
became bud hopkins you know

568
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:26,080
the well-known ufo researcher

569
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:27,440
and um

570
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:28,880
he always was a painter and he's a

571
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:30,400
wonderful painter

572
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:32,400
but the new york city art world is an

573
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,799
unforgiving mistress and

574
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:37,120
i i i am as soon as i can be that there

575
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:39,039
were many people that looked down their

576
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:40,240
nose at him

577
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,159
and thought the less of him for getting

578
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:44,960
off on this quirky silly little tangent

579
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,280
um

580
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:49,600
but he never stopped painting and his

581
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,559
paintings are wonderful and um

582
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,320
a wonderful part of his legacy as well

583
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,640
as his written work and his scholarship

584
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:58,640
and pioneering investigation into the

585
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:00,799
ufo phenomena but that's how we met but

586
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:04,480
to answer your question in 1977 he and i

587
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,880
together did our very first ufo

588
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:08,559
presentations

589
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:11,200
in tandem on the stage of the school of

590
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:13,520
visual arts on their 23rd street

591
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,559
building

592
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,120
and then i think i spoke at my first

593
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:18,480
conference

594
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:21,760
in 1981 in albany new york

595
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:24,159
and the thing i remember most about that

596
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:26,000
was first how special

597
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:28,840
and exciting it was to be a speaker at a

598
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:31,039
conference and that

599
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:33,120
whatever the albany newspaper was that

600
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:34,559
was covering it

601
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:36,320
on the saturday they came around and

602
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,080
asked for comments from the speakers and

603
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:39,919
i thought this is too cool

604
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,960
you know and i had worked out in my mind

605
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:45,360
something like look around you you know

606
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,799
you're seeing all kinds of professionals

607
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:49,120
it was sponsored by the organization

608
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:50,640
that was started by this new york city

609
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:52,559
police officer so there are a lot of

610
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,640
cops there so you've got a lot of police

611
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,200
officers you have some doctors i know

612
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:59,600
teachers there's attorneys

613
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:01,280
there's lots of

614
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,840
well-educated real world people here who

615
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:05,679
have a very serious interest in this

616
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,799
subject

617
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:08,159
and i guess what i'm trying to say is

618
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,760
we're not just a bunch of goofballs that

619
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,520
wrap our bodies in aluminum foil to keep

620
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,200
out the gamma rays he thought that was

621
00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:15,360
very funny thank me and walked away

622
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,600
i think you you see this slow car crash

623
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,760
coming and the next day it was sunday

624
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,520
and you know the features section on

625
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,679
sunday and of course all i want to see

626
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:25,360
is my name and print and i go down the

627
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:27,679
column and it's like peter robbins new

628
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:29,760
york artist and conference speaker says

629
00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:31,600
we're not just a bunch of guys who wrap

630
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,039
our bodies in aluminum foil to keep out

631
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:35,120
the egg the gamma rays end quote and i

632
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,440
thought hmm

633
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,360
very interesting grasshopper what's the

634
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,909
so

635
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:45,440
and that's all they wrote right that's

636
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,919
all they wrote

637
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,200
got me good

638
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,200
yeah i don't make it that easy for him

639
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,159
now

640
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,240
that's right yeah it wasn't at the time

641
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:00,230
wow

642
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,280
so i you know we have um you know like

643
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:05,760
10 minutes or so to go here and i wanted

644
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:08,720
to talk about your book is it left east

645
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,280
left at eastgate a firsthand account of

646
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:13,679
the reynoldson forest ufo incident its

647
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,000
cover-up an investigation

648
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:19,200
something i'm tremendously proud of

649
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,480
that took almost 10 years to write

650
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:24,559
took every bit of money that i had saved

651
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,000
that i had made essentially put me into

652
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,559
undeclared bankruptcy my co-author the

653
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:32,080
same thing

654
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:35,280
it became another matter of obsession

655
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:36,720
i just knew we had to finish this

656
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:38,400
important book about what is now

657
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:39,600
regarded

658
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,240
without question as england's best known

659
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,320
and maybe more important best documented

660
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:46,880
ufo incident and that book

661
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:50,799
which was terribly handled by a almost

662
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:54,080
i'll call him felonist publisher

663
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:55,840
they did a number on us but the english

664
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,240
publisher very small press

665
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:00,960
but they um that book became a major

666
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:02,640
bestseller in the united kingdom and it

667
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:04,880
changed our lives and i think

668
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:06,799
very without question it changed the way

669
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,840
that the british many british people

670
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,520
think about the subject of ufos in

671
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:13,760
general in this case in specific and i

672
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:16,240
know that um

673
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,400
tony blair certainly had a copy whether

674
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:20,640
or not he read it i don't know um the

675
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:23,200
former chief of staff of the ministry of

676
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,400
defense

677
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,559
a former admiral of the fleet and when

678
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,320
we knew him um

679
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,799
sir lord peter hill norton

680
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:33,039
was a member of parliament

681
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,559
and he went out on the floor of the

682
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:36,799
house of lords with his hardcover copy

683
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:38,080
in hand

684
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,080
and basically went in the face of the

685
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,200
then secretary for defense and asked him

686
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,600
a series of questions out of our book

687
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:47,679
and it's all in the daily record of

688
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:49,279
parliament which i'm very proud of that

689
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:51,039
happened in 97

690
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:54,159
the book was republished in 2005 in an

691
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:55,840
expanded edition

692
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:58,400
and it documents my co-author's

693
00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:00,640
involvement and the ramifications of

694
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,080
that involvement

695
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:04,880
in being an eyewitness to one of a

696
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:07,600
series of events that constitute the

697
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,679
so-called incident that took place over

698
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:12,559
three nights consecutive nights between

699
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:14,799
christmas and new year's in december of

700
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,600
1980 and

701
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:19,840
larry left the service with an honorable

702
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,320
discharge sometime after that

703
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:24,559
and then two years later went on to

704
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:27,039
become not a but the whistleblower on

705
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:29,919
the case and caught holy hell and 31 and

706
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:31,760
a half years later is still

707
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:33,679
taking heat and static and attacks from

708
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,320
people for having the courage to do

709
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,640
something extraordinary

710
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:41,360
it was just a lighthouse yeah right now

711
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:44,320
there's a lighthouse it was a fertilizer

712
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:46,960
truck on fire it was

713
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:49,360
you know troops smoking reefer in the

714
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:50,400
woods when they're supposed to be

715
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:52,960
guarding nuclear ordnance it was so many

716
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:57,120
things yeah so in that case jim peniston

717
00:26:02,549 --> 00:25:59,120
touched it but also didn't he come up

718
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:04,870
algorithms or something in his mind that

719
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:07,679
he later attributed to the experience

720
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:09,600
well you're talking remember we're

721
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,440
talking about a series of events and

722
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,360
incidents over three nights yes

723
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:15,520
everything from sightings to landings to

724
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:18,159
appearances etc on the first night among

725
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:20,640
other things um two law enforcement

726
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:22,240
personnel saw a light go down in the

727
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:23,919
woods radioed in for permission to

728
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:26,480
investigate and that was

729
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:29,120
john burroughs and jim peniston

730
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:30,799
and they came upon

731
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:33,679
a craft of undetermined origin

732
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:35,360
not terribly large

733
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:37,279
just gently kind of floating through the

734
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:39,120
woods as i understand it about chest

735
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:39,919
height

736
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:42,400
and at one point jim touched it

737
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:45,200
and now says that when he touched it a

738
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:47,360
binary code

739
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:48,960
well that's what it was about he put it

740
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:52,720
into his head right and that in in

741
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,960
december of of uh 2010 at the

742
00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:58,799
conference that we had created to mark

743
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,520
the 30th anniversary where he and um

744
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:03,760
john spoke i spoke

745
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,640
my co-author spoke briefly linda howe

746
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:08,240
who they were working with at the time

747
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,000
spoke and

748
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,159
nick pope former of the ministry of

749
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:14,240
defense came in on the question and

750
00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:17,520
answer period but at that conference jim

751
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:20,400
went from saying it's my

752
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:22,559
in so many words it's my stated belief

753
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:24,240
that it was

754
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,559
time travelers that were responsible for

755
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:28,720
this to saying

756
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:31,360
when i touched it this you know binary

757
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:33,919
code downloaded into my head and initial

758
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,480
translations are that this was time

759
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,320
travelers from our future

760
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,279
and the audience went very very

761
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,360
emotional how could you have not made

762
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:45,440
this public for all these years

763
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,960
and what was it

764
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,799
well i wish i could tell you but

765
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:50,720
i'm on a non-disclosure agreement with

766
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:53,360
prometheus productions which we're here

767
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:55,360
working on a documentary

768
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,440
and that documentary came out and the

769
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:59,600
truth was not revealed and jim and john

770
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,760
um have made it clear to all of us that

771
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,080
they're working on a book about this now

772
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,200
and i look forward to seeing

773
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:09,760
the evidence to establish that this was

774
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,760
time travelers from our future

775
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:13,600
wow but this is the tip of the newest

776
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,760
tip of the iceberg so to say yeah is

777
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:17,840
there other new things you can touch on

778
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:19,600
that have come to light well i'm the

779
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:21,919
former deputy-based commander who went

780
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:25,279
into this as a skeptic but then um

781
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:27,039
was told that they were back and went

782
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:30,320
out into the woods yes uh colonel halt

783
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:33,120
um with a number of men and his own tape

784
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:34,159
recorder

785
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:36,799
uh recorded their reactions as they

786
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,200
watched a unknown come in very close

787
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:42,000
over them and shine down a beam of light

788
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:43,520
to their feet

789
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,279
and what i now know that i learned in

790
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,120
june um through

791
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:49,679
gary hazeltine gary is a respected

792
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:52,159
british ufo investigator who also

793
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,440
happens to be

794
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,880
finishing a long and distinguished

795
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:56,559
career as a serving british police

796
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:59,520
detective in yorkshire and has certainly

797
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:00,799
earned his retirement and is getting

798
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:02,399
married later this month and we all wish

799
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:03,760
gary the best

800
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,159
but gary has been working on a screen

801
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:09,039
treatment a screenplay on reynoldshum

802
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:11,279
working with charles halt from his point

803
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:12,480
of view

804
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:13,600
and

805
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:16,159
what kind of shocked me was learning in

806
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:17,039
june

807
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,000
that

808
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,000
charles halton his men

809
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,240
who observed the light coming in that

810
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:24,240
later manifested itself as a craft on

811
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:26,480
the ground that larry and the men he was

812
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,480
with ordered to surround

813
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:30,720
was actually at one point

814
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,520
walked around the far end of the field

815
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:35,440
that larry was in came into a second

816
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,799
farmer's field

817
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,360
came around the other side

818
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:41,360
to the beginning of a stand of trees

819
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,520
that comes out into the field called

820
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:45,919
capel green where larry warren my

821
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,320
co-author's event took place

822
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:50,240
and

823
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:51,919
by my reckoning would have been in a

824
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:55,120
position to observe if the time frame

825
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:56,960
were right what was going on there with

826
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,720
these other men

827
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:00,960
and when gary asked him what happened

828
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:07,269
his response was that's the funny thing

829
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:08,960
i don't remember

830
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,080
which i found absolutely shocking now

831
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:15,120
for a lay listener that might sound like

832
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,480
you know somebody making believe they

833
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:18,480
don't remember or that

834
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:20,799
you know the government made you forget

835
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,399
or something like that but in um events

836
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:26,480
where there is an intercession so to say

837
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,960
with these other intelligences

838
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:31,200
the reactions of people who are having a

839
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,799
profound sighting or an experience or in

840
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,399
abduction or what have you and i don't

841
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:38,159
claim to know what happened

842
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,200
but

843
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:41,919
your reactions can be so antithetical to

844
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:44,080
the reason to the reasoning of the

845
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:46,320
seriousness of the moment of

846
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,760
see how lovely the flowers look or gosh

847
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,159
i'm tired i think i'll take a nap no

848
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,960
joke these are or gosh i wonder what's

849
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,960
on tv

850
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:58,799
and you know something just shuts down

851
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:01,200
in your brain and for them

852
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:03,120
having just had this beam of light shine

853
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:04,880
down to the ground as this unknown comes

854
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:06,559
over them yeah we can only imagine the

855
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:09,120
adrenaline dump or what have you at that

856
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:10,159
moment

857
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:12,559
to now know that that is what he says

858
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:13,440
for me

859
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:15,279
in a way gives me a certain amount of

860
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:18,480
extra compassion for former colonel halt

861
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:20,799
retired colonel halt because he may be

862
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:22,960
struggling with a lot more

863
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,360
of memory or not memory or not wanting

864
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:27,840
to talk about things that he is not in

865
00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:29,679
control of so to say

866
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:31,520
and again this is the tip of the iceberg

867
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:32,880
this incident

868
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,919
has spawned a tremendous amount of

869
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,279
controversy

870
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:40,080
a number of books thousands of pages of

871
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:42,399
articles and monographs ever so many

872
00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:45,919
documentaries and it's 31.5 years later

873
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:48,880
now and it is still hitting the fan it

874
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:52,320
is still ongoing i gave a talk uh six

875
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:55,279
weeks ago in phoenix and one slightly

876
00:32:02,230 --> 00:31:59,039
before that in sedona arizona on updates

877
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:02,240
on this case uh the month before that i

878
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:03,919
spoke at a conference right back on

879
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:06,399
location in woodbridge suffolk england

880
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:07,679
um

881
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:10,960
on you know updates on the case uh the

882
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,360
personalities it is such an important

883
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,760
event and there's so much real

884
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:17,600
evidence for it

885
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:20,559
if our congress ever had the courage

886
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:21,840
they didn't have the courage of anything

887
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:23,840
right now overall but if they ever had

888
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,480
the courage to look into ufos

889
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:28,559
this could be the case that could crack

890
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,519
it open

891
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,679
obviously it's not going to happen

892
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:33,519
certainly not in this incarnation of

893
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:35,440
reality we're in right now

894
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:37,840
but it's a terribly important case and

895
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,960
i'm

896
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,640
really proud of our book and the hard

897
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:43,120
work we put into it and now did nick

898
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:44,880
pope help out with any

899
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,200
nick was um

900
00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:49,760
he was very supportive

901
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,399
of my efforts we hadn't met until

902
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:54,240
literally the week that the book came

903
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,519
out

904
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,600
larry and i had come over to england

905
00:33:02,149 --> 00:32:59,760
for a month to do what amounted to close

906
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,159
to a 15 city speaking tour

907
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,000
and i had

908
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:06,080
made a positive acquaintance of nick in

909
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,799
his role in the ministry of defense

910
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,320
and he had he had just been very

911
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:11,919
supportive and wishing us well on our

912
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,200
project

913
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,600
and when it was in galleys i sent them

914
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,919
to him i was hoping that

915
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,840
because he's an important distinguished

916
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:21,600
personage in this that he'd write us up

917
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,799
a blurb

918
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:25,039
and he he liked the book very much and

919
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:27,600
he wrote us a great statement that

920
00:33:32,070 --> 00:33:30,080
i really appreciated and um

921
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:32,080
for years when he he lived in london i'd

922
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:34,640
often stay with him on follow-up trips

923
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,120
uh he's now married to a an american

924
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,760
woman we always snick well and he now is

925
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:41,440
resident of southern california and

926
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,679
arizona depending on the time of year

927
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:46,240
uh on a new part of his life yes wow i

928
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:48,320
didn't know that yeah well hey this has

929
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:50,720
been absolutely fantastic we're out of

930
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:51,600
time

931
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,399
and uh i really really enjoyed speaking

932
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,399
well a real pleasure and so good to

933
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:58,399
connect up with you um at this

934
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:00,880
conference and earlier on the phone and

935
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,720
i'd be happy to return at any point in

936
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:04,880
the future and pick up that on the ufo

937
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,720
topic in general or talk a bit more

938
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:09,520
about randallsham and um again all the

939
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:11,760
best with the podcast and i am

940
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,320
fascinated by this and wow i know you're

941
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:16,000
going to be a major player in this as we

942
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:18,240
move forward well thank you very much